If you read this blog regularly, you’ll remember that I had some thoughts on The New Layers of Web Development in a recent entry. Basically, I talked about how the full stack (from web server to server-side programming to client-side rendering) of a modern web apps works together, and how it may disrupt the traditional Web Standards advocate’s Structure/Presentation/Behavior view of things.
What followed was a very hearty and useful discussion. After reading the comments, I’ve re-framed some of my opinions, changed a few others, and found better ways to talk about yet others. And I’m putting it all together in a presentation for Refresh Seattle that I call The Full Stack: Reevaluating the “Layers” of Web Development.
My Refresh Seattle event is on October 30th at 6:00pm at the Ballard branch of the Seattle Public Library. I will be keeping the presentation fairly short — maybe 40 minutes or so, and leaving plenty of time for Q&A. Like all Refresh Seattle events, there will be drinks, appetizers, and conversation afterwards at The Bar-Mar (probably my favorite lounge I’ve been to in my short time in Seattle).
I really hope to see you all there! Even if you can’t come to the event, at least come to the Bal-Mar for drinks and such!
The presentation description I very hastily wrote is as follows:
Web Standards advocates often talk about the three “layers” of web development: Structure (markup), Presentation (CSS), and Behavior (JavaScript). This view, however, cuts out the backend of things, and may be a bit shortsighted. Is your markup really where your content’s structure comes from? Can markup really be completely separate from presentation? Is CSS really the only method for presentation? And how does context play into all of this? Jeff Croft will discuss what happens to the academic three layers when web development happens in the real world.
I really hope to see you all there! If you’re going to attend, do RSVP on Upcoming.org. Even if you can’t come to the event, at least come to the Bal-Mar for drinks and such!
001 // Derek K. Miller // 10.15.2007 // 10:02 PM
Alas, because of my medical treatment I won’t be there, but I mentioned it on the intranet at Navarik — maybe someone will be inclined to make the drive for a couple of hours to do some cross-border shopping and Jeff Croft-watching. It’s a lot easier than when you were in Kansas!
002 // Marco // 10.16.2007 // 3:30 AM
I’m from germany/france and would love to listen to your event, but it might be a bit far from here.. is there a chance to see this on the web as well, i.e. youtube or some other site?
003 // Ricky Irvine // 10.16.2007 // 9:59 AM
Yeah, I’m in Kentucky. I can’t come. Will there be audio or video available? This seems like a worthwhile follow-up that would benefit those of us outside Washington.
004 // Alexander Radsby // 10.16.2007 // 10:28 AM
I’m from Sweden so I definitely can’t come. But like Marco, is there any way this will be recorded?
005 // Emmy Southworth // 10.18.2007 // 1:43 PM
This sounds interesting. Include my vote for an audio/video broadcast.
006 // Jeff Croft // 10.18.2007 // 2:32 PM
Hey guys — glad to hear you’re interested! Insofar as I know, Refresh Seattle doesn’t record its events. I’ll check with Nick and see if it can be arranged, but I wouldn’t count on it. At the very least, I’ll publish my slides here and at BlueFlavor.com, and if this topic is indeed interesting to people, I’ll propose it to some other conferences and see if I can’t do it a few more places — hopefully places that will record it. :)
007 // Miguel Angel Friginal // 10.20.2007 // 6:25 PM
This is kind of confusing… how is that the refreshseattle.org site (and the newsletter this month) says it is going to be Walker Hamilton on the 24th talking about the Digital Web magazine backend? Plans changed?
008 // Jeff Croft // 10.20.2007 // 9:44 PM
@Miguel: No change of plans. Walker talks on the 24th, and I talk on the 30th.
009 // Miguel Angel Friginal // 10.21.2007 // 11:37 AM
Great! Now I just have to figure out how to escape my work early to go to Seattle from Tacoma twice this month… Actually 3 times, counting Leopard release. And when is Halloween again? Ufff
010 // Joe Teixido // 10.21.2007 // 6:22 PM
I’d die to be able to attend but I’m like 8000 miles away :(. Please Jeff do post something after the speech… a pdf of your presentation (like you did with the “Beyond the font”) would do.
Aw BTW, if I where you, I’d be donning some nomex and kevlar ;).
011 // Mark Notermann // 10.31.2007 // 2:29 PM
Hi Jeff,
That was my first refresh event and I’m glad I went.
I’m primarily a print designer and appreciated the fact that your presentation was useful in a macro sense, and I could grasp the content of your message without knowing some of the minutae.
Any chance you could share those 2 slides with the 5-layer graphics? Personal use only—PROMISE!
012 // Taree // 11.03.2007 // 11:43 PM
“Please Jeff do post something after the speech… a pdf of your presentation (like you did with the “Beyond the font”) would do. ”
I second that motion, and update on the event?